June 25th, 2024

Engineer insists Post Office software did a 'good job'

Former Fujitsu engineer Gareth Jenkins defended Horizon IT system's performance amid Post Office scandal. Testimony contradicts system's reliability, sparking controversy and raising questions about sub-postmasters' convictions. Ongoing investigations and public scrutiny ensue.

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Engineer insists Post Office software did a 'good job'

In a Post Office scandal involving the Horizon IT system, Gareth Jenkins, a former senior Fujitsu engineer, defended the software's performance, claiming it did a "good job" despite being used to convict sub-postmasters. Jenkins, who is under investigation, disputed criticisms of Horizon's reliability during a public inquiry, contradicting a High Court assessment that the system was not robust. The 72-year-old engineer's testimony clashed with the experiences of sub-postmasters who faced issues with bugs and errors in the system. Jenkins' denial of any wrongdoing related to his court evidence has sparked controversy among those affected by the Horizon system. The scandal has raised questions about the software's role in the convictions of sub-postmasters and its overall reliability, leading to ongoing investigations and public scrutiny.

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By @crooked-v - 5 months
For anyone wondering at the context here, more than 900 subpostmasters in the UK (that is, contracted franchisees running small branch post offices) were accused and convicted of supposedly embezzling money, based entirely on faulty software. See the Wikipedia post for more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal
By @conductr - 5 months
The more I read of this the more I think it’s the legal system that’s really at fault here. Any developer that says “trust me, the software works” can’t be trusted. I feel like every user of software has experienced this fact. I feel like they should need third party code audits, field testing and generally a much higher burden of proof such to actually rule out software bugs sufficiently to jail someone.
By @sicgods - 5 months
The software vendor and this engineer looks like it should have done more to speak out on the problems, but the real villain here was the Post Office who actually pursued the prosecutions despite knowing from basically the beginning about significant problems.

The vendor can't bring a prosecution, so this looks like an attempt to obscure the real villain to some degree.

By @JohnMakin - 5 months
https://archive.ph/c85Fo

This guy’s a real piece of work. Not only did he architect this software, he was a key witness in several postmaster prosecutions. Deserves every ounce of jail time the state can throw at him, which appears to be approximately zero. There is a special place in hell for this kind of extreme arrogance.

By @PreInternet01 - 5 months
Snort. Yeah, so, back in the late 90s, I met the CTO for ICL (later acquired by Fujitsu, but it was basically what was then left of the 'British IBM'), after evaluating their Visual Basic 5-based front-end software for a day or two, at the instigation of Microsoft UK.

VB5 was not an entirely horrific choice for an UI running on Windows touchscreen hardware at the time, but the project was riddled with basic mistakes, like blocking foreground threads with long-running background operations, and, mostly, threading model mismatches between UI and back-end code (which was all C++, but not the good kind -- and oh, it implemented some weird distributed messaging bus, where you could do just about anything, but nothing really worked, especially not if the ISDN-based network was acting up...).

My recommendation was to upgrade to VB6, which made multi-threaded foreign function calls at least reliable-ish, to re-do the entire calling surface of the C++ libraries accordingly, plus to significantly improve documentation, since literally nobody seemed to know which calls did exactly what (as in: which parameters they required and what they returned) and how to handle retries.

The guy literally listened to me for 30 seconds (possibly less!), then turned around, and told his minions to escort me out and "get someone who understands what we're doing here". Well...

By @pxeger1 - 5 months
I haven’t seen any coverage of technical details of how the buggy software might have made fraud look possible. Does anyone have a link about that?

A priori it seems a little implausible to me that any software could make such a mistake in a way that didn’t make it obvious it was a bug, but I don’t know the extent to which the Post Office might have mishandled the evidence.

By @IshKebab - 5 months
Pure hubris. He worked on the system, people are saying that it is fatally flawed and he's just not accepting that possibility because it feels like a criticism of him.

He can't imagine the bug so the most likely explanation is theft.

We see this attitude here all the time, e.g. the people that think they never write bugs, and tools to avoid them like static typing, Rust, tests, etc. are just for lesser mortals.

By @datavirtue - 5 months
At what point do you take a pause in the midst of accusing 900 of your most trusted people of high crimes? Is everything on fucking auto-pilot? I have been prosecuted by an automated system before. The State actually owed me and still owes me restitution.
By @gnfargbl - 5 months
By @siva7 - 5 months
Hopefully that "engineer" gets exposed so we all know who to never work with. There aren't many devs in the world partly responsible for the death or wrongful prosecution of over 900 people and still denying any responsibility but spitting in the face of the victims by claiming they did a good job.
By @Devasta - 5 months
Stuff like this is why some software engineers should have the same legal requirements that real engineers do, with personal liability for negligence and the risk of fines or jail.
By @Gys - 5 months
By @aurizon - 5 months
Engineer! What Railroad??
By @blackeyeblitzar - 5 months
I can’t read the article due to the paywall but is this the incident where software written by some firm accused postal workers of theft and got them fired? Hard to see how the final outcome can be characterized as a good job, unless they’re claiming they implemented the specifications they were given.