July 31st, 2024

Cargo Cult Science (1974)

The text examines science versus pseudoscience, focusing on Uri Geller's psychic claims, Richard Feynman's skepticism of ESP, and the Esalen Institute's influence on consciousness and alternative therapies.

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Cargo Cult Science (1974)

The text discusses various topics related to science, pseudoscience, and cultural phenomena. It highlights the life and claims of Uri Geller, an Israeli-British performer known for his alleged psychic abilities, particularly spoon bending. Geller's performances sparked debates about the authenticity of his abilities, with skeptics attributing his feats to stage magic rather than genuine psychic phenomena. The text also explores cargo cults, which emerged in Melanesia during and after World War II, where local populations attempted to attract material goods by imitating military practices they observed.

Richard Feynman, a prominent physicist, is mentioned for his contributions to quantum electrodynamics and his skepticism towards claims of extrasensory perception (ESP) and PSI phenomena. These terms refer to purported abilities like telepathy and psychokinesis, which have been subjects of scientific scrutiny and debate. Feynman criticized ESP research as "cargo cult science," highlighting its lack of rigorous scientific methodology.

The Esalen Institute, founded in the 1960s, is noted for its role in the human potential movement, attracting thinkers interested in consciousness and alternative therapies. The institute's workshops and interdisciplinary approach contributed to discussions on mind-body integration and early psychedelic research. Overall, the text emphasizes the tension between scientific inquiry and beliefs in the paranormal, illustrating the challenges of distinguishing between legitimate science and pseudoscience.

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By @lutusp - 5 months
Here's a better copy of this classic Richard Feynman address, rendered in text instead of graphics (meaning it can be copied in whole or in part), without any advertising: https://calteches.library.caltech.edu/51/2/CargoCult.htm
By @Y_Y - 5 months
This is one of the more influential ideas I've ever come across. Not that the actual behaviour of people living on isolated islands briefly visited in wartime matters so much, but it's a good story. If your take away the concept of

"In trying to emulate success by copying without understanding, you may make the error of copying the visible things, rather than the relevant ones."

then it's a pattern than can be seen in all walks of life, rather than just science (where the difference may be particularly stark). I find that many people will now recognise an accusation of "cargoculting" (although I have heard this interpreted as meaning the worship of a British prince).

By @wolframhempel - 5 months
I love this article as it speaks to one of the most overlooked aspects of modern life: There are a lot of fundamental things that we take for granted and practice every day - a lot of things with lots of experts and powerful institutions around them - that simply do not work.

And once you have such a thing, and you've build your reputation, your power base, your institution around it, it is absolutely paramount to carry on with it, deepen it, and extend it - regardless of whether it works or not.

But continuing the thing that doesn't work doesn't require some malicious intent or ulterior motive. Quite often, it's just a question of "well, what else would we do?". And the answer to that is often "nothing" - or "we don't know" - so it's better to do something and feel like we have agency and are doing something about it than just carrying on with our lives.

By @cb321 - 5 months
While, as Feynman describes, "Science" absolutely aims to be better, scientists are also human animals and language (or maybe more aptly "imitation") instincts run deep throughout the animal kingdom.

There are pros & cons. On the one hand mistakes like The Cargo Cult propagate. On the other hand, so do skills & shortcuts. There are fine lines between imitating & pretending, practice & pretension. Nature videos show little predator cubs often doing "practice attacks" with siblings... I've no idea what the rate of failing to hold back on a bite is, but presumably the "play" serves most of them well later on in their lives in real hunts.

In short, and very related to Feynman's essay, it's also very easy to fool oneself into thinking one has solved The Demarcation Problem [1] without actually doing so in a way portable/persuadable to other minds. (But Feynman was surely a true genius and would probably have acknowledged the incompleteness of his account in what was after all only a brief graduation speech!)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarcation_problem

By @dang - 5 months
Related:

Cargo Cult Science (1974) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37107817 - Aug 2023 (136 comments)

Cargo cult science (1974) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35041549 - March 2023 (156 comments)

Cargo Cult Science (1974) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26563567 - March 2021 (69 comments)

Cargo Cult Science (1974) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21120637 - Sept 2019 (33 comments)

Cargo Cult Science (1974) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13290107 - Dec 2016 (37 comments)

Cargo Cult Science (1974) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11669004 - May 2016 (38 comments)

Richard Feynman: Cargo Cult Science (1974) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6543791 - Oct 2013 (62 comments)

Feynman's Cargo Cult Science - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1629571 - Aug 2010 (25 comments)

Cargo Cult Science by Richard Feynman (.PDF) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=993150 - Dec 2009 (4 comments)

Cargo Cult Science, by Richard Feynman (1974) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=723140 - July 2009 (17 comments)

By @pkoird - 5 months
> You must do the best you can—if you know anything at all wrong, or possibly wrong—to explain it.

I can imagine a frustrated researcher reading this and muttering, "and what? Risk publication?". Scientific integrity, of which Feynman talks is much more difficult to maintain if the said integrity leads to a substantial decrease in the quality of life. As is known, research is a hit or miss and there will never always be groundbreaking results. But if you are only rewarded for such groundbreaking results, you are then incentivized to package the most interesting aspect of your study while burying away the rest of it.

So long as honesty, not success, is not properly incentivized, science and scientific methods will never prosper to the heights that Feynman talks about.

By @swayvil - 5 months
The vast majority of us live in a secondhand reality. A kind of culturally secreted dream. It ain't real but it's useful.
By @qwerty456127 - 5 months
> some kind of mysticism, expanded consciousness, new types of awareness, ESP, and so forth. And I've concluded that it's not a scientific world.

Something being not scientific doesn't imply it doesn't exist. It may instead just be too hard to observe scientifically, sound too crazy and appear uninteresting to scientists. Nowadays there already is enough credible research in these areas to be confident exotic phenomena actually take place in peoples brains when they report mystical experiences - thanks to techniques like fMRI, EEG, transcranial stimulation etc. People may tend to make epic claims and construct wonky ideologies based on what they feel, but they don't always make the entire story up. UFOs also are known to exist AFAIK - there just is no reason to believe that's alien spaceships, that's just flying objects we failed to identify and explain. We just need more real scientific exploration to decrease need in fairly-tale explanations of the phenomena people observe - hasn't this almost always been the case with everything since the stone age? The very fact people try to discuss "supernatural" phenomena with a scientist suggests presence of the demand for more science in this.

By @tcj_phx - 5 months
Modern psychiatry is a well-intentioned cargo cult. I borrowed from Feynman for my essay at Mad In America: Cargo Cult Psychiatry. https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/06/cargo-cult-psychiatry/
By @EricE - 5 months
Feynman would have had a field day with the idiots proclaiming "The Science is Settled!"
By @boerseth - 5 months

    > The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.
This phrase is repeated many, many times in the legendary fan-fiction Harry Potter and the Methods Of Rationality (HPMOR)[1], which I'm sure many here are familiar with already.

It is perplexing to hear people making room for their favourite pseudoscience using the excuse that "there are things science cannot explain". See, the annoying thing about science is that if something can as much as be observed, then it can be observed repeatedly, and then reasoned about - effectively allowing us to do science on it. That's even the case for magic, if it were real, as illustrated in HPMOR.

Even the most absurd and chaotic phenomenon, bereft of any discernible pattern or rhyme or reason, can at least be observed to behave chaotically and then be described as such. Et voilà : science !

[1] https://hpmor.com/

By @seydor - 5 months
Yeah , cargo cult science doesn't work but Cargo Cult Entrepreneurship (CCE™) can make you rich.

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By @worstspotgain - 5 months
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool."
By @Ma8ee - 5 months
And this is what a lot of developers do: copying superficial patterns without understanding. It used to be junior (and not so junior) programmers using unnecessarily complex design patterns without understanding what problems they were about to solve. Then it was building systems out of dozens of services to be able to scale, because they didn't have any idea of what kind of scale they actually needed more than one cpu for.
By @superfish - 5 months
We should add “- Richard Feynman” to the title. I was pleasantly surprised to notice that only after clicking the link