August 8th, 2024

In Japanese You Need a Dictionary to Count Things

Japanese counting uses specific counter words called josuushi for different nouns, with around 500 types. This complex system can confuse even native speakers, despite simplifications that may cause ambiguity.

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In Japanese You Need a Dictionary to Count Things

Japanese counting involves a complex system that requires the use of specific counter words, known as josuushi, to quantify nouns. While basic counting from one to ten appears straightforward, the intricacies arise when attempting to count objects. Each type of noun necessitates a different counter; for instance, "two books" is expressed as "ni-satsu," while "two carrots" becomes "ni-hon." There are approximately 500 different josuushi in the Japanese language, each tailored to specific categories of items, such as 人 (nin) for people and 枚 (mai) for flat objects. This system can be confusing, even for native speakers, as many struggle to remember the correct counters. Simplifications exist, such as using the generic counter つ (tsu) for inanimate objects, but these shortcuts can lead to ambiguity. The necessity of counters in Japanese contrasts with languages like English, where counting is often more direct. The evolution of this counting system may stem from historical linguistic developments and social dynamics, making it a unique feature of the language. Despite its complexity, the system serves its purpose, allowing over a billion speakers to communicate effectively.

- Japanese counting requires specific counter words for different nouns.

- There are around 500 josuushi, each designated for particular categories.

- Native speakers often struggle to remember the correct counters.

- Simplified counting methods exist but can lead to ambiguity.

- The evolution of this system reflects historical and social linguistic dynamics.

Link Icon 6 comments
By @firethief - 8 months
All languages have redundancy; it serves as a form of forward error correction. I recall some sort of study (sorry, no link) finding that information density was (by some metric) similar across different languages. So it's not just inefficiency; it's part of the language's necessary inefficiency.

Of course, some forms of redundancy would be better than others--in cases where people aren't sure which particle to use, it probably isn't doing much good. However, language evolution is able to achieve some optimizations, and I suspect the particles people know tend to be the most important. For example, the many sushi or shellfish particles might sound particularly silly, but if you're in those industries, maybe they are helpful in maintaining important distinctions in a noisy kitchen/market, or in written records. If you're a customer you probably don't know them, and you don't need to.

Epistemic status: Wild-ass guessing from my armchair.

By @jiehong - 8 months
Chinese calls those qualifiers or quantifiers, but they don’t even match the Japanese ones it seems, which is funny.

Like 一本书,两位人 and so on. Yet, you can default to the generic one which is 个 (even if it might not sound very proper or educated, it’s not wrong per say).

By @gus_massa - 8 months
Is this somewhat similar to the collective nouns? Or they have counting nouns and collective nouns?
By @barlog - 8 months
That's a great point, thanks for the amazing insight!

素晴らしい着眼点ですね。気付きに感謝します!

By @raverbashing - 8 months
At some point, grammar complexities remain not because of language evolution, but as a way to enshrine power and privilege

The Book of Saint Albans being a prime example of this

By @ThePowerOfFuet - 8 months
I found this super interesting (and was one of today's ten thousand). Thanks for submitting it!