September 22nd, 2024

'I Don't Want to Die.' He needed mental health care. He found a ghost network

Ravi Coutinho faced significant challenges accessing mental health care through his Ambetter insurance in Phoenix, highlighting broader issues with outdated provider directories and the difficulties many Americans encounter in securing services.

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'I Don't Want to Die.' He needed mental health care. He found a ghost network

Ravi Coutinho, struggling with severe mental health issues, faced significant challenges in accessing care through his Ambetter health insurance plan after relocating to Phoenix. Despite multiple attempts to find a therapist, including 21 phone calls, he encountered a "ghost network" where many listed providers were either unavailable or no longer accepting patients. This situation reflects a broader issue within the health insurance industry, where insurers often maintain outdated directories that mislead customers about available care options. Ambetter's parent company, Centene, has faced scrutiny and legal action for similar practices, including fines for failing to provide accurate provider information. Ravi's experience highlights the difficulties many Americans face in securing mental health care, particularly in areas with provider shortages. His mother, Barbara Webber, an advocate for healthcare access, attempted to assist him but also encountered barriers when contacting Ambetter. The lack of timely and accurate information from the insurance company exacerbated Ravi's mental health struggles, illustrating the urgent need for reform in how health insurance networks operate and communicate with their clients.

- Ravi Coutinho struggled to find mental health care through his Ambetter insurance plan.

- He faced a "ghost network" issue, where many listed providers were unavailable or not accepting new patients.

- Ambetter's parent company, Centene, has been criticized for maintaining inaccurate provider directories.

- The situation underscores the broader challenges Americans face in accessing mental health services.

- Ravi's mother, a healthcare advocate, also encountered difficulties when trying to assist him.

Link Icon 26 comments
By @todfox - 7 months
I once had an insurance plan with a grossly inaccurate provider directory. This cost me a bit as the doctor they suggested to me, verbally on the phone, turned out to be out of network. They later told me it was the doctor’s responsibility to remove themselves from the directories and they often fail to do that. If they’re so incapable of maintaining an accurate list of providers on their own, how did the insurance company know to reject that claim so quickly? They are simply liars and fraudsters.

I began calling random doctors in the directory and one even told me he tried to get his name removed for three years. Anybody at the insurance company could clean up the directory once a quarter. They know the directories are inaccurate. It makes their network look bigger.

Health insurance middlemen need to be eliminated already.

By @xyst - 7 months
It’s beating a dead horse at this point, but private health insurance is quite possibly the worst middleman I have ever dealt with.

They not only make the patients life worse but the doctors and hospitals as well. Dealing with insurance means small practices need a dedicated office staff to file the right paperwork and get paid for each patient visit.

By @knodi123 - 7 months
I've dealt with ghost networks too, with BCBS of CA. They provide you a directory with a thousand options, and I was already planning to go with the first provider that would have me. Had to call 15 before I got one that wasn't out of business, not accepting new patients, or not actually accepting the provider that gave me their number. So I can only assume that roughly 6% of their providers are actually real.
By @NeuroCoder - 7 months
Working in a psych unit trying to improve this process is really eye opening. Some key doctors have put in the effort to turn the inpatient floor from weeks of being trapped to identifying these situations where people simply need actual support established. There's even a special 72 hour turn around program recognizing this situation where the system has failed and what we need is rapid stabilization and setting up the proper support for the person to have therapists, medicine, and support groups while still living their lives. It still has flaws, but there are people that care and are working overtime to fix the system. It's just a very slow process.
By @olalonde - 7 months
Health insurance in the US sounds like such a scam. Is it not possible to pay for a psychiatrist directly or to renew prescriptions without seeing one?
By @bryan_w - 7 months
The leaders at ambetter should be in jail. The world would be better off if they didn't exist.
By @taurath - 7 months
Ghost mental health networks are a thing. If you need a specialist therapist you will probably not even be able to get a single available provider who takes insurance. The best you can do, if you don't have a bunch of cash on hand or an HSA is get on a waiting list for literal years.

People on medicaid, those who would proportionally probably need more mental healthcare, have the least amount of access (very very few therapists can financially afford to take medicaid), and the worst care (those that do are almost always new grads trying to finish the requirements of an independent license). It is one of the ways that our society deeply punishes the poor.

Many many people especially here will never have experienced this - but some who've say lost a job due to a mental health reason quickly find that as their job goes away so does their ability to access care. Then they have to decide between at minimum $400 a month (more likely $700) for food/rent or for therapy.

There is frequently nobody there to help you at the bottom. It can't happen to you until it does.

By @copx - 7 months
Man, American healthcare sucks.

Who came up with this "network" idea? I hope they are burning in hell.

Here in Germany I can just go to any doctor/care provider. The insurance companies don't have networks I need to worry about. I have always considered that normal, and think the American system is horrible and perverse.

By @dgoldstein0 - 7 months
This is messed up. Feels ripe for a wrongful death lawsuit at the minimum, and likely some regulatory enforcement against this scam insurance
By @39896880 - 7 months
What is most horrifying about this story is it is not about a person who is poor, or stuck in their ways and refusing help. It is about a person with both the will to get better and a caring family member advocating for him. If that kind of person can't get help, what chance does anyone else have?
By @Bengalilol - 7 months
This is so bad : we can measure a country's strength by its weakest link. There are some major loopholes here.
By @LeroyRaz - 7 months
This isn't normal. No other developed country has these issues.

How can any American be proud of their country?

By @howard941 - 7 months
Know what else sucks? A provider in your network at the beginning of the year and then dropping out partway through the year. Now I'm stuck for the rest of the year with insurance that I can't change that doesn't cover the provider it was chosen for. Recourse?
By @EMM_386 - 7 months
I've never heard of them.

Then I read the bring in more revenue then "Disney, FedEx or PepsiCo".

Wait, what? Oh, right, subsidaries.

And, of course, a giant in Medicare Advantage.

That company sounds ... very bad and needs to start doing what they are supposed to be doing and stop playing games. People are looking for help and they are looking for ... well, how to squeeze out more money I suppose.

"You need psychiatric care? Sorry, we're a bit busy trying to make more money. Priorities and all."

"Someone died due to our lack of caring about any of that? Sorry to hear that. Listen, gotta go. (click)"

Sue them into the ground.

By @keybored - 7 months
I almost teared up.
By @yieldcrv - 7 months
> what good another detox would do if it didn’t help him combat the root causes of his addiction through therapy

that’s how I feel about suicide hotlines and the random placement of suggesting people call them

By @hedora - 7 months
It's common to hit similar road blocks when trying to get a primary care physician around here (and the in-network specialists won't see you without a referral from a primary care physician, rendering your health insurance worthless for non-emergency care).

The US really needs to get rid of the health insurance industry. Single payer would work as would standardized pricing combined with "if the doctor is licensed the insurance company must accept the bill".

Barring that, there should be SLAs regarding for one-shot online searches or one phone call lookup of in-network care providers.

For example, there could be a guarantee that the top three hits of at least 99% of such attempts each contain the phone number of a doctor's office that is accepting new patients and provides relevant care. If the insurance company falls below that bar, then it should have to refund all the premiums they collected that month (since there's no way to know which customers deferred care due to this bullshit), or be hit with some other fine that'd actually be material to their earnings.

By @tareqak - 7 months
I’ve had a similar experience with an insurance provider with similarly outdated providers when I was in Arizona.

One of the care providers that was listed was one that I had previously seen in California (the education/ alma mater, name, etc. were all the same). I did end up calling to make sure, and found that my hunch at the time of this information being horribly stale was correct.

By @hut8 - 7 months
https://www.timesunion.com/health/article/attorney-general-s...

We have a huge problem with this in New York.

By @more_corn - 7 months
Weaponized incompetence
By @hackable_sand - 7 months
This is chilling. It lines up with my experience except I made it out with scars.

People still judge me for them so I wear them openly and talk about them openly.

By @xtracto - 7 months
This reads so fucked up... pardon my language . But after every paragraph I was shouting "why don't you go to a private psychiatrist, even if it is out of the insurers network!!!!"

Of course I already know the amswer: apparently in the US the cost of that is prohibite. Over here I can go to doctoralia.com.mx and book a next day specialist for at most $100 for the first consultation. Just to get my message, and the ask him to help him refer to whoever takes my insurance, if needed.

US health system keeps beeing THE reason why I would never think to migrate to that country. No matter how pretty the American Dream sounds like.

By @Apocryphon - 7 months
Not to get too ideological, but libertarian proponents tend to claim that businesses with poor service will just naturally be outcompeted. Those who go as far as to suggest that fraud need not be prosecuted by statist regulation will say that dishonest companies will have bad reputations and customers will naturally not patronize them.

Makes me wonder what trying to build such a reputation system would look in practice. Consumer Reports manages to hang on as a publication but not everyone consults it, and there are so many more review sites these days of varying quality, impacted by AI/outsourced copywriting.

And when you deal with an industry as dominated by a few monolithic oligopolies like health insurance or phone service- what is more bad publicity going to do to AT&T? You can’t even boycott that, especially when they lock in customers to prevent them from easily switching away.

By @chriscappuccio - 7 months
Maybe at the point when this guy figured out that drinking a fifth a day was bad, and his insurance company was a piece of shit, he could have thought, I'll do something else. Jujitsu ? AA ? Heck, go to a church. Try one of those cheap ketamine clinics if you have to...come on, there are so many ways... I get it, you have insurance and it would be nice to use it but many, many medical interventions are flawed and the services are not going to fix your life for you. As this poor guy unfortunately discovered when he thought that his plan was going to help. No, it probably won't, and even a good provider may not be of much help.
By @wantsanagent - 7 months
I've encountered this in the Pittsburgh area with AHN. Trying to get a provider results in printed lists of outdated numbers, practices not accepting patients, etc.

Frankly I think we need to start breaking laws. A startup needs to offer straight up good care and fuck the web of infinite regulations which support America's for profit health failure.

Doctors can lose their licenses pretty easily so it's going to have to be a straight tech play. Offer as-good-as-possible care entirely outside of the medical profession. AIs are getting good enough that despite the obvious errors they make they are still better than the nothing-burger of care we get here.

By @ars - 7 months
It's easy to blame the insurance companies, but doing so misses the more important detail: There aren't enough providers. No amount of complaining or regulating the insurance companies is going to change this.