December 13th, 2024

Mathematicians Uncover a New Way to Count Prime Numbers

Mathematicians Ben Green and Mehtaab Sawhney proved there are infinitely many prime numbers of the form p² + 4q², utilizing the Gowers norm and building on previous conjectures in number theory.

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Mathematicians Uncover a New Way to Count Prime Numbers

Mathematicians Ben Green and Mehtaab Sawhney have made a significant breakthrough in number theory by proving that there are infinitely many prime numbers of the form p² + 4q², where both p and q are prime. This result builds on a conjecture proposed by Pierre de Fermat and later explored by mathematicians Henryk Iwaniec and John Friedlander. The duo's proof, which was posted online in October, utilized innovative techniques from a different area of mathematics, specifically the Gowers norm, to establish connections between various types of prime numbers. Their approach involved loosening constraints on the primes they were studying, allowing them to first prove the existence of infinitely many primes formed by squaring "rough primes" before extending their findings to actual primes. This work not only enhances the understanding of prime distribution but also suggests that the Gowers norm could be a powerful tool for tackling other problems in number theory. The collaboration between Green and Sawhney, sparked by their meeting at a conference, exemplifies how interdisciplinary approaches can lead to unexpected advancements in mathematical research.

- Ben Green and Mehtaab Sawhney proved there are infinitely many primes of the form p² + 4q².

- Their proof utilized the Gowers norm, a technique from a different area of mathematics.

- The work builds on earlier conjectures by Fermat and Iwaniec and Friedlander.

- The findings suggest potential new applications of the Gowers norm in number theory.

- The collaboration highlights the importance of interdisciplinary approaches in mathematical research.

AI: What people are saying
The comments on the article about Green and Sawhney's proof of infinitely many primes of the form p² + 4q² reflect a mix of excitement, skepticism, and broader implications of the research.
  • Many commenters express enthusiasm for the significance of the result in number theory and its potential implications for understanding prime distributions.
  • There is a discussion about the clarity and quality of the article's writing, with some finding it confusing or lacking in detail.
  • Several comments highlight the practical applications of prime number research in fields like cryptography, computing, and machine learning.
  • Some users question the deeper philosophical implications of prime numbers and their role in uncovering truths about the universe.
  • There are references to other mathematical conjectures, such as the Riemann hypothesis, indicating a broader context for the discussion.
Link Icon 13 comments
By @evanb - about 2 months
> There are infinitely many primes that can be formulated by squaring two whole numbers and adding them together. [...] By insisting that one of the numbers you’re squaring be odd, perhaps [...] makes the problem much harder.

Does it? For any number a, a^2 = a (mod 2), and primes greater than 2 are all odd, so if a prime p = a^2 + b^2, doesn't one of a or b have to be odd? Reducing mod 2, p = 1 (mod 2), a^2 + b^2 = 1 (mod 2), a + b = 1 (mod 2), so either a = 0 (mod 2) and b = 1 (mod 2) or vice-versa?

edit:

If Euler proved infinitely many such primes exist then "With this in hand, Green and Sawhney proved Friedlander and Iwaniec’s conjecture: There are infinitely many primes that can be written as p^2 + 4q^2." makes no sense without a further condition of p or q, let (in my notation) a=p be odd and b=2q be even.

Now having finished the article, I think this was just sloppy writing, and the actual accomplishment is related to the post-perhaps clause: one of p or q has to itself be a perfect square? Anyway, I have very little certainty about what was actually accomplished from reading this article.

By @d-lisp - about 2 months
I disliked the way this article is written, it reminds me of "we had to rollback to the previous UI because the new one was too efficient that people spent less time on the website".
By @glial - about 2 months
If anyone here is working on similar problems, I just wanted to flag this recent announcement of a new $9M funding pool:

https://renaissancephilanthropy.org/news-and-insights/renais...

> Proposals should be aligned with one of the following categories:

> Production grade software tools: AI for auto-formalization, proof generation, synthesis of verifiable code, and more

> Datasets: Open-source collections of theorems, proofs, and math problems Field building: Textbooks, courses, and resources to grow the AI-for-math community

> Breakthrough ideas: High-risk, high-reward approaches to AI-driven math research

By @DemocracyFTW2 - about 2 months
> the primes aren’t random. They’re completely determined

I wonder how true this statement is but it probably also relies on the understanding of the word 'random'. In the colloquial sense, it is certainly true in the sense that (truly) 'random' means 'occurring without (discernible) rules'.

However, in a stricter definition 'random' means (if I'm not mistaken, hobby-thinker here) just "a given set of numbers S is called random with respect to a set of binary tests T when all individual procedures in T yield a positive outcome". That is, you can only ever a finite set S and test against a finite set T, meaning the algorithm that generated your random-looking set S can, potentially, always be amended to creep closer to overcome the failed tests (and the reverse is also true: one can, potentially, always move the goalposts and add another test to T to make a set fail that used to pass).

Ultimately, then, randomness—where it is not occurring eo ipso as in radioactive decay—is always a relative (S WRT T), social (people must agree), and finite (can't test against unseen members of S and, per precondition, can't give a rule to cover infinity as in 'divisible by eleven') procedure (that may or may not practically terminate). In other words, once we settle on a given set of tests T to determine what is random, one can (potentially) always come up with an algorithm that passes the tests, thus looks random though it is determined.

By @anthk - about 2 months
http://mrob.com/

Concisely:

http://mrob.com/pub/math/numbers.html

The rest of the site it's amazing too.

By @kouru225 - about 2 months
If the twin prime conjecture gets solved we riot
By @adgjlsfhk1 - about 2 months
This is a huge result! It seems like it could be a non-trivial amount of the way towards solving the general type of problem of proving that the primes show up with expected density for most "normal" sets of polynomials.
By @Babawomba - about 2 months
let’s not ignore the practical side. Algorithms for studying primes drive advances in computing, machine learning, and data science. Cryptography literally depends on them. Plus, big unsolved problems like the Riemann hypothesis could completely reshape number theory.

Green and Sawhney’s work is especially exciting because it shows how tools from one field—Gowers norms—can unlock progress in another. That kind of cross-disciplinary insight is where breakthroughs happen. And yeah, it’s fair to question funding priorities, but basic research has given us antibiotics, GPS, and even computers. Without it, we’d still be in caves.

By @eh_why_not - about 2 months
In the recent past, I've accepted that all titles are not informative anymore. But that there was hope that the subtitles were actually informative (i.e. the subtitle was the real title, and the title was the clickbait).

In this article, neither is informative.

And even after several paragraphs in, you don't know what the general area of the proof is. Just meandering long-winded story-telling.

If anyone of you authors/editors of this magazine are here; please, for the love of all that's holly, put the crux of the matter at the top and then go off to tell your beautiful, humanized, whatever... story.

By @imprime - about 2 months
Prime numbers, in their spirit, are like decomposing a problem into independent smaller problems. It is a search for a divide and conquer algorithm. So when people learn how to decompose and put together new problems there is a source for new knowledge. One of the most trivial examples is how if you can factorize a polynomial into factors you have a simple way to solve for the roots of that polynomial by solving the smaller problem of finding the roots of the factors and the union of all roots is the root of the initial polynomial. In that example the three parts: decompose, solve subproblems and finally compose the final solution are clearly exposed.

Nowadays we are wondering if LLM are going to be the next prime numbers. The question is if solving the language problem is going to provide us the key for solving the AGI problem. We still don't know what is the equivalent of a prime for a LLM, that is the smaller independent part that allow it to express some knowledge, the pieces could be embeddings or the topology of the layers or some new insight.

Some more random ideas, just like Norvig see python as a more practical Lisp, the basic ideas from prime numbers impregnate a great part of mathematics. You can be really far from the root but the principles are always with you, primes are a second nature, you have internalized all their properties and dynamically you learn to see primes like features in many fields (prime ideals, spectrum of a ring, points in commutative algebra).

The problem of how many primes (in relation to positive integers) is like wondering whether a given decomposition exists in a general sense that could allow us to solve the general problem. So few primes implies that the theory could solve some kind of problems but not many. What are LLMs number?, that is the question if solving the language problem will allow us to solve some very general problems, like a good approximation to AGI. The problem of whether LLMS will open the way to AGI could be the next Riemann hypothesis once we succeed in defining what is a prime number in relation to a LLM.

We are trying to prove escalating laws for how LLM improve when increasing the number of parameters, this is like trying to guess the convergence of an infinite serie by using a finite sum. The analogous of a Riemann hypothesis could be defining certain kind of LLM and conjecturing if it could obtain AGI pass some threshold for the number of parameters.

Edited: Sorry for being overly verbose this mornig!

By @reedf1 - about 2 months
>> But of course, the primes aren’t random.

Stunning to me that a staff writer for a science magazine would type this sentence without referencing the riemann hypothesis.

By @fruit_snack - about 2 months
All this research into prime numbers and for what? (Serious question)

Is it that the methods required to do serious research on them ends up helping us discover other things?

Is there some deeper truth about the universe hidden in the prime numbers?