August 6th, 2024

No price Microsoft could pay Apple to use Bing: Google antitrust ruling excerpts

The ruling in the United States v. Google case confirms Google's monopoly in search engines, highlighting its payments to Apple, lack of competition from social media, and resilience against AI disruption.

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No price Microsoft could pay Apple to use Bing: Google antitrust ruling excerpts

The recent ruling in the United States v. Google antitrust case, delivered by Judge Amit Mehta, highlights Google's dominant position in the search engine market. The extensive 286-page opinion reveals that Google pays Apple billions to remain the default search engine on Safari, with Apple executives stating that no amount from Microsoft could persuade them to switch to Bing. The judge noted that Google is perceived as the only viable option for many Fortune 500 companies, which find it financially unfeasible to consider alternatives due to the substantial revenue share they receive from Google. The ruling also clarifies that TikTok and other social media platforms do not compete with Google as general search engines, as they operate differently and do not index the web in the same manner. Furthermore, the judge dismissed the notion that AI could soon disrupt Google's search dominance, asserting that current AI technologies cannot replace the foundational elements of search. The ruling concludes that Google's ability to alter its search quality without fear of losing users is indicative of its monopolistic power, raising questions about consumer harm and competition in the digital age.

- The ruling confirms Google as a monopolist in the search engine market.

- Google pays Apple billions to maintain its default status on Safari.

- TikTok and social media platforms are not considered competitors to Google Search.

- Current AI technologies are not poised to disrupt Google's search dominance.

- Google's ability to degrade search quality without losing users reflects its monopolistic power.

Link Icon 10 comments
By @ralferoo - 5 months
> Apparently in 2020, Google conducted a study looking to see what would happen to its bottom line if it “were to significantly reduce the quality of its search product.” The conclusion was even if the company made search shittier, the revenues from Search would be fine.

Just because they could, doesn't mean they should. But I guess they decided to anyway - it was around that time that adverts shifted from being clearly labelled to being disguised as search results.

By @nullindividual - 5 months
If Apple could produce a high quality, privacy-minded search that respected common query operators, I'd jump for it. Unfortunately without robust ads, there's no money in it.

Bing as of a handful of years ago wasn't all that bad -- in fact, if you lived in the Microsoft enterprise sphere, it was arguably better than Google. Now that Bing belongs to the ad division, it's no better than Google search. Both platforms are defacto promoted ad engines with SEO gaming for results just beyond the ads.

And I'm aware of Kagi, but it's not for the wide swaths of whatever can be indexed out there... it's tough to stomach paying for a utility that has been free since the 1990s.

By @segasaturn - 5 months
Steve Jobs famously said Microsoft's problem is that they have no taste in design. I had the displeasure of having to use a fresh install of Windows 11 the other day and Bing without an adblocker was a complete horror show, big carousels of products and obvious ads at the top of the results screen you have to scroll past to see results, irrelevant news articles shoved in your face, the signal to noise ratio of Bing's search results page is abysmal. If Bing just copied the way Google's homepage and search results looked like in 2008 they would immediately start taking marketshare from Google.
By @stuff4ben - 5 months
I've been happily off Google Search for several years now and have enjoyed Duck Duck Go (Bing) ever since. Recently, the lack of Reddit posts in search results is disappointing, but not the end of the world. Wish I could move off GMail, but it's a bigger task. I've also been on Firefox for over 10 years now and don't miss Chrome at all. Google does some good things, but they lost my trust a long time ago.
By @ladzoppelin - 5 months
How is Googles CEO still there, I understand that changing CEO's does not magically change anything but this is getting ridiculous. Google has dramatically changed since he has been in charge, this might be the 4th crazy mind blowing incident that could possibly lead to their downfall but I have a bad memory.
By @hwbehrens - 5 months
Historically, Google has served as the fallback for pretty poor performance from Siri on knowledge tasks, which to this day often falls back to web search results.

But, if Bing (especially circa 2016) were that search provider, it would lead to confusion all the way down. It's bad enough not to receive an answer from your first attempt, but it's much worse not to be able to receive an answer at all.

The payments were certainly a sweetener to discourage exploring (or incubating) alternatives, but I agree with the article that I don't think they could have dumped or replaced Google at that time, even without the payments.

Given a broader shift from search engines to "knowledge engines" or however they're branded these days (which, in fairness, probably drew some inspiration from Google's Knowledge Graph), I think that Apple's options are wider these days.

By @dagaci - 5 months
So .. we are ... saying ... gooole pays $20 billion cause yah know ... apple is cool.?? homage
By @iamleppert - 5 months
With that logic, one only has to look at the decline of the quality of Google Search results and ask yourself, why does Apple continue to endorse such a low quality product?
By @ChrisArchitect - 5 months
By @eutropia - 5 months
The $20 billion is categorized as "advertising" on Apple's Balance Sheet. I seem to recall so many commenters on HN whatabouting on the topic of advertising and privacy when it comes to iPhones versus android smartphones.

Is that line item the justification for people to imagine, whole cloth, that Apple has an advertising incentive, and therefore is no better than Google?

Wouldn't it be ironic for folks trying to equivocate Apple and Google's advertising agenda to find out that the only reason Apple has revenue from "advertising" is because Google pays them to?

> The big DOJ antitrust trial over Google Search revealed last week that Big G pays Apple $20 billion a year to be the default search on iOS. That’s over 20 percent of the “services” revenue Tim Cook loves to talk about on earnings calls, but hey, where is all that money on the balance sheet?

> BI’s Peter Kafka found out: Apple categorizes it as “advertising.”

-- https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/6/24150326/well-thats-an-int...