August 14th, 2024

Tell HN: Microsoft SecureBoot "Breaking" Changes, Today's Milestone

Microsoft's Patch Tuesday updates KB5041585 and KB5041580 for Windows 10 and 11 fix boot issues with older Linux ISO images and automatically blacklist compromised SecureBoot keys, excluding dual-boot systems.

Tell HN: Microsoft SecureBoot "Breaking" Changes, Today's Milestone

Microsoft's latest Patch Tuesday updates for Windows 10 and Windows 11 include significant changes related to SecureBoot Advanced Targeting (SBAT). The updates, KB5041585 for Windows 11 and KB5041580 for Windows 10, address various issues, including a fix for older Linux ISO images that may not boot. This rollout represents a step in Microsoft's effort to replace compromised firmware keys that were previously used for SecureBoot. Historically, Linux had to disable SecureBoot to boot on UEFI systems, but with the introduction of Microsoft-signed keys, Linux can now boot with SecureBoot enabled, provided it uses the same keys built into the motherboard. The current updates will automatically initiate a blacklist procedure for compromised keys, which previously required user action. However, it is important to note that this SBAT update will not apply to systems that dual-boot Windows and Linux. Users are advised to check their older ISOs and bootable drives, as they may require adjustments to function correctly with the new SecureBoot settings.

- Microsoft has released updates KB5041585 and KB5041580 for Windows 10 and 11.

- The updates include fixes for older Linux ISO images that may not boot.

- The updates automatically initiate a blacklist procedure for compromised SecureBoot keys.

- The SBAT update does not apply to dual-boot systems with Windows and Linux.

- Users should verify older ISOs and bootable drives for compatibility with new SecureBoot settings.

Link Icon 4 comments
By @bradley13 - 5 months
Using the shim for dual-booting was a pain, not least because Microsoft updates periodically removed it.

Thankfully, I solved the problem by removing Windows a couple of years ago. It now lives in a rarely used VM.

By @OSI-Auflauf - 5 months
If firmware not buggy: If Secureboot is set up to use keys which never signed any bootloader that lets you modify the system pre-login.: Then it kind of matters.

If you have a gaming board: Firmware integrity checks are mostly easy bypassable.

If you use a distro's default bootloader scheme: You can compromise the OS pre-login.

The CA that signed the shim, the Microsoft 3rd party CA, sogned all kinds of crap that lets you run whatever you want from that.

The whole shim thing is not about security but having stuff boot smoothly without screwing with bios settings.

If you want it to give you integrity, then you need to roll your own keys and make sure the firmware has no signature check bugs letting one bypass signature checks.

All this is orthogonal to self sovereign systems.

On Intel thats gone. You can't have a secure and sovereign firmware game without extreme extra effort.

The whole secureboot roll your own keys is the next best thing of harm reduction.

If we had some way of making the system actually static and separate from userdata. And a way to boot that prevents any persistent executable code from the userdata part from running. So as to have a clean state. From that on we could bind that state to unlock signing keys to sign the next version of the booted stuff. Then we could have nice security properties minus whatever is bad in the Intel TCB.

Compromise to root would actually be nicely reversible.

Immutable distros exist. But they are not there yet in terms of conditional readonly-ness.

By @hulitu - 5 months
> Tell HN: Microsoft SecureBoot "Breaking" Changes, Today's Milestone

That's why i disable "SecureBoot". It does not bring any security.

By @uncharted9 - 5 months
Does this affect Fedora and Ubuntu, which run fine with Windows dual-boot and secure boot enabled?