August 25th, 2024

How to verify boot firmware integrity if you prioritize neutralizing Intel ME?

Securing computer boot firmware poses challenges, especially with me_cleaner disabling TPM. Methods include using cameras, physical containers, and regular firmware checks, though detecting modifications remains difficult. Vigilance is crucial.

How to verify boot firmware integrity if you prioritize neutralizing Intel ME?

The discussion revolves around the challenges of securing computer boot firmware, particularly when using me_cleaner to neutralize Intel Management Engine (ME), which inadvertently removes Trusted Platform Module (TPM) functionality necessary for boot verification technologies like Heads or AEM. Users must choose between utilizing me_cleaner or maintaining TPM for boot verification. Various methods for protecting boot firmware are explored, including the glitter nail polish technique, which requires meticulous photographic documentation, and the use of a secret camera to monitor unauthorized access. The camera should record locally and activate on motion, but concerns about tampering and data erasure by adversaries are noted. Other suggestions include using a secure container for the computer and employing tamper-evident stickers, though these can also be circumvented. The camera technique is deemed the most practical for daily use, while periodic firmware checks are recommended, despite the difficulty in detecting malicious modifications. The conclusion emphasizes the need for vigilance and the potential necessity of re-flashing firmware without certainty of prior tampering.

- Using me_cleaner disables TPM, affecting boot verification technologies.

- Various methods for securing boot firmware include cameras and physical containers.

- The glitter nail polish technique requires careful documentation and is labor-intensive.

- Tamper-evident measures like stickers can be easily compromised.

- Regular firmware checks are essential, though detecting modifications is challenging.

Link Icon 14 comments
By @michaelt - 5 months
> Then the question becomes, what do you personally do to protect your computers boot firmware?

I have a multi-stage strategy.

First and most important, physical security. My computer is valuable enough that if I left it unattended in public, someone would probably nick it and put it on ebay. So I only leave it unattended in places with good enough physical security.

Secondly, I avoid doing anything that would impose spy-thriller-movie-level security requirements on my equipment. My employer wants to secure a critical code signing key? I'll be happy to sort them out with their own HSM in their own properly secured data centre, or their own USB stick in a bank vault, or whatever their requirements dictate. My personal security research? I anonymously publish anything interesting I find right away. And I strictly avoid going to countries where I think the government ought to be overthrown.

Therefore, the chances of an attack targeting my boot firmware are exceptionally small.

Finally, I embrace the reality that the TPM wouldn't have helped me anyway. Firstly the security the TPM offers depends on the security of the BIOS, and we all know that's a joke. Secondly, even if the TPM worked perfectly and the BIOS was secure and so on, an attacker in a position to mess with my firmware could just as easily install a physical keylogger, or a hidden camera pointing at my keyboard, or just have masked goons hit me with a $5 wrench until I tell them the password.

By @zeroflow - 5 months
My bigger question would be why do you need to verify boot firmware? If we know your goal, maybe there is a better way.

Tbh, I for myself would not care for physical intrusion. If someone (private or state sponsored) has the willingness to intrude into my home, them tampering with my PC is the least of my concerns. As someone else also mentioned: A $5 wrench will be more effective than any measures you can do by modifying your pc.

Regarding tamper evidence, there have been multiple Defcon / Blackhat talks about tamper evidence. One thing that comes into mind is vacuum sealing a notebook into a bag with colored beans and taking a photo. This way, it will be impossible to access the pc without disturbing the pattern of beans surrounding the PC. You just need the software to compare photos to know if the sealed bag has been tampered with.

By @transpute - 5 months
> when you use me_cleaner to neutralize intel ME, it also removes TPM.

s/TPM/fTPM/

Some laptops have a discrete pTPM in addition to the ME's firmware TPM, which can be used for firmware validation, disk encryption, etc.

Some OEMs can detect when the chassis is opened, e.g. HP TamperLock, https://h20195.www2.hp.com/v2/getpdf.aspx/4AA7-8167ENW.pdf

By @dghughes - 5 months
This reminds me of my casino days. For slot machines each has several seals and the firmware and OS were checked each time anything was changed. We used a machine from a company called Kobetron for the EEPROMS but later the check was the OS on a disk. Seals were two layer foil with TAMPER when pulled off or a plastic tab that had a wire embedded in it.
By @thelastparadise - 5 months
One trick is to weld the case shut (you can get a welder on amazon for ~$100). This makes it much harder to open, especially in a non-tamper-evident way. You can open the case back up by using an angle grinder with a cutting disc to slice through the weld.

I'd recommend taking a very high res photo of the welds so you can compare later if tampering is suspected.

By @AshamedCaptain - 5 months
> Another idea is a container for the computer. The container can of course be destroyed easily but then you will at least know they did something with the computer. But you would need a container that the evil maid can't go get a duplicate of or have one manufactured so they can replace the container after destroying original one.

What's the goal here? Why can't the same super-powered evil maid just create a visually-identical replica of your entire computer, login UI included, then MITM your password / unlock sequence ?

Then go through your original computer at their leisure with the captured password, while you ponder why "your" computer just crashed after login...

By @ajot - 5 months
> Another idea is a container for the computer. The container can of course be destroyed easily but then you will at least know they did something with the computer. But you would need a container that the evil maid can't go get a duplicate of or have one manufactured so they can replace the container after destroying original one.

There was an article [0] posted some days ago, they reccomended a transparent container and a mixture of red and brown lentils, and work just as with the glitter nail polish.

[0] https://www.anarsec.guide/posts/tamper/

By @nicolapcweek94 - 5 months
"Perfection is the enemy of good" also applies here, imho. If you need one specific machine and cannot work without it, well I guess there's not much more you can do than the nail polish trick. But if you "just" need a safe compute environment and store your sensitive data off site (in whatever secure way you prefer), burner machines probably work best. Don't travel with your data at all, buy a cheapo early Secure Boot laptop on arrival (an X220-era Thinkpad or something like a C720P Chromebook), install whatever distro you prefer with your own Secure Boot keys enrolled and a signed kernel and feel free to access your remote data from your freshly installed secure 100$ laptop. A ton of early Chromebooks can be Corebooted for extra purity (with an easy script from MrChromebox) so you can go from vanilla Chromebook to Coreboot + custom keyed Secure Boot + distro of choice in half an hour!
By @Jerrrrrrry - 5 months
You cannot protect hardware, just the things that flow through it, for a brief time.

Buy a random older computer with cash. Nothing critical needs more than 512mb anyway.

Faraday caged, WIFI/Bluetooth/EM sensitive heartbeat monitors, decentralized fail-safe Live feeds,full air gapped setup with UPS, white-noise machines, and only transmit data via QR codes.

Hope the monitor you chose to display QR and the web-camera are also faraday'd.

Hope the computer you are using to display the QR never gets compromised, and the QR-code reader, at the same time.

It's easier to send a squid-team with a $5 wrench.

By @nullc - 5 months
The validation you lose is close to worthless in any sense because attackers that could get past your glitter nail polish can replace your computer's innards. even so far as replacing your computer with a networked KVM that pilots your computer at a distant location so you can type in your passwords, etc.
By @rolph - 5 months
resocket your chipset so you can pop it out and take it with you.
By @fsflover - 5 months
I use Heads with TPM and Librem Key (with my own keys) just fine on my Librem 14 with neutralized ME.
By @dtx1 - 5 months
The correct answer is coreboot+heads